How do go about selling photos?

[J]

Sorry if wrong forum, move it. :-D

I've graduated 1 photography course, working on the other. I've never gotten any real advice on how to sell the photos I take. All I've been told is that I could do it easily to pay for my tuitions. Obviously, it's not that easy. I've gotten tired of taking photos just as a hobby, I wanna get payed. If possible, of course. I have a lot of photos I think are sellable. Not great and stunning photos, but sellable. I also want to start making cash to save up for a new digital camera and get rid of my lousy pain in the butt Canon G3. Also to maybe make me feel like I have a future being 25 and still living with my mother...

Example of photos. Done with my G3. Not all are amazing, but I have severe equipment limitations.

http://www.photozo.com/album/showgallery.php?ppuser=8768&cat=500

Any advice on making some cash, without me having to do any travel or go out and get jobs cause that's not really possible, would be appreciated.

[brucep]

My sweetheart is an artist (metal sculpture) and makes whatever inspires her and exhibits it in cities around northern California. If people like it, they buy, if not... She refuses to do commissions (including practical things like gates). Frankly, she's not earning a living at it, but she's her own person.

When I did freelance photography, I was kind of a (pardon the expression) high priced whore. (Now I whore for a company which writes my paychecks twice a month.) In order to make money at photography, I found out what others in my area charged, and showed people what I could do (as your portfolio would prove) and offered my services to them.

One problem is that so few people know what good photography (or art) is that there's a glut on the market of things they would consider "good," so they're rarely willing to pay a decent price for good photos.

[J]

In order to make money at photography, I found out what others in my area charged, and showed people what I could do (as your portfolio would prove) and offered my services to them.

People in this city charge 2 grand just to look at a place someone wants photos of. I think that's a bit excessive. And with a low grade digital camera, I'd get laughed out the front door if I asked that price.


One problem is that so few people know what good photography (or art) is that there's a glut on the market of things they would consider "good," so they're rarely willing to pay a decent price for good photos.

I've spent like 2 grand on course training and haven't made a single penny doing this. I'm really starting to see it as a big mistake and a waste of the last 4 years of my life. If it doesn't start paying off soon... I dunno what I'm gonna do. It's nothing more then a hobby right now and not the high paying job I was promised when I started my courses.

:-(

[mgbeach]

no one is just going to show up at your door with a sack full of cash demanding your photos. You mentioned you dont want to travel or go out and get jobs. Well, sorry to say, professional photography may not be in your future.

you might want to spend another 2 grand on some business courses to go along with the photography. I'm sorry to sound harsh, but to be successful in anything is going to require a lot of hard work.

[brucep]

J, something you might do is imagine senarios you'd like to be in. That might be flocks of people seeing your works in a gallery, getting great reviews and selling them off the walls. And (or) it might be someone calling you up and saying, "I'd like you to photograph the hundreds of watches we make, for our catalog."

Now take your imagination a step further. How did you get your work displayed in the gallery? How did the watch manufacturer know you could do the job (has he seen the close shots you have in the 'zo gallery)? Sorry, but you have to "pound the pavement" to show your wares and abilities.

If it's event photography you want to do, find someone who can't afford a wedding photographer, study up on it (if you haven't had classes) and do an excellent job for free and show it to prospective clients. Portraiture? Same thing.

If it's sales of your existing (and future) prints you want, connect with other "artists" in your area and see how they're making sales. My sweetheart metal sculptor is part of a local art group which has an annual Open Studio Tour (which gets great publicity) and people come to our (home) gallery on two consecutive weekends each year and she sells thousands of dollars worth. She has to do the footwork to sell her work.

[J]

no one is just going to show up at your door with a sack full of cash demanding your photos. You mentioned you dont want to travel or go out and get jobs. Well, sorry to say, professional photography may not be in your future.

How about the fact that I don't own a car, have a drivers license, or have access to any method of travel other then my legs or an old bicycle? :-D That's a pretty good explanation. If I lived in a town, that may not be a problem. But I live in a city. And, yeah, that's pretty harsh. I don't know what I said to make you be so harsh. I'm just trying to get payed for what I got training for. I don't think that's to much to ask.


but to be successful in anything is going to require a lot of hard work.

I don't think I ever said I wasn't willing to work hard. There are no want ads in the newspaper for a low budget photographer here. I'm not likely to get any jobs with the camera I have when there are people with superior equipment and can give superior results.


If it's sales of your existing (and future) prints you want, connect with other "artists" in your area and see how they're making sales.

I tried that once. Her best advice was "good luck". :?


What about "stock photography"? I've been told a lot of my photos are good for that. Yet, I have no idea what stock photography is other then a mention of it in one of my study books.

[CrazyRazor]

I dont think anyone was being harsh here, but you seem to be cutting off your possibilties.

You just said you had no transport, which i thought could make your postion tough - if you lived in the middle of nowhere, but you then went on to say you lived in the city... ever heard of public transport.

Nothing in this life is ever going to be handed to you on a plate, you have to get out there and take it... if anyone ever told you it was going to be easy then they were lying!!

[Cadwell]

I am afraid travelling is very much a part of professional photography. I shoot motorsports and drive about 20,000 miles a year to and from venues - not because I enjoy the driving but because it's a necessity. If you're serious about professional photography then an important first step would be to address your travel difficulties.

[J]

I'm sorry, and I'm not meaning to be a jerk, but is this thread just an ad for Chrysler or something?

[bclayton]

I'm sorry, and I'm not meaning to be a jerk, but is this thread just an ad for Chrysler or something?

I think this thread is more of a reality check. In pursuing any career there are certain obstacles that one needs to deal with. You asked for advice and the answer is with the limitations that you specified (i.e. no traveling and jobs) that there really isn’t a lot of options. You can try a stock photo shop, but I don’t think they pay that much. When you say no jobs, are you ruling out wedding and children portraitures too?

[happycamper]

I'm sorry, and I'm not meaning to be a jerk, but is this thread just an ad for Chrysler or something?

:shock: :?:

[EricvZ]

... Done with my G3. Not all are amazing, but I have severe equipment limitations.

I owned a G3 and although it has it limits, i think it is a camera capable of recording scenes very well. All the shots in my gallery from before July 1 2005 are from the G3. It has all the controls like a dslr, but with limited aperture, Af isn't always quick, especially in low light, but i still think it is a good camera for a compact model. Get to know your camera to get the best out of it.

Like others said too ... work and money ain't going to fall on your doormat if you don't put any effort in it.

Just some thoughts ... if you live in a city, build yourself a gallery from streetscenes, try to get some people in it to get some life in the pictures, record the daily struggle from traffic in your city, people going to work, everyday scenes ... i think there is enough to see there. Usualy streetscenes in B&W will work to get some more interest.
One way to get your work displayed is go to a Gallery in your city and ask if they are interested to hang some of your work in there, try the local library, townhall, restaurants, etc. ...
You could try to get in touch with local newspapers to make pictures for articles they work on ...
It won't be easy to get your name and work out if you just start, but sure worth a try.

Have fun.

[JimL]

I don't live in an affluent area and I don't try to sell photos (so far) anywhere. I do go to a park quite often and have been approached several times about taking photos of kids whose parents don't have the money to buy the school packages. The reason they approached me is that I am familiar (by sight if not by name) as the guy who always carries a camera and tripod around. Chance for big money. No but it is a chance to make SOME money and get your name around. I also do photos for various EBay sellers, when I feel like it, for friends and senior friends of my mother who are "discovering" that EBay is the new "yard sale" and lets them feel connected by my visits to take the photos and by the visits of the postal worker who picks up the packages when they are sold. There is a market for that type photo probably within a bicycle ride of your home and 3x5 cards posted in your convenient store will probably get some paying customers.
If you want to make money there are many ways to do it. Some involve delivering pizza or working at McDonalds while trying to get your name out there. None involve staying home and criticizing the system. The chance to succeed is all any of us are offered (excluding P Hilton) and it is up to you to take the chance.
JimL

[brucep]

Eric & Jim, you reminded me of a couple of early, very minor things that helped move me forward in photography, and neither cost me anything other than what it had cost me to make the prints I already had around my apartment.

Eric, you mentioned hanging in libraries. I did that in two towns I lived in. I saw they had rotating shows and asked to be one of the presenters. In one case a local bank VP saw it and asked me to hang some in his bank lobby. I had my business cards on every print. None of these lead to big money, but it did bring enough to buy more and better equipment, and mainly it got my name out.

I used to belong to a dog training club, and I did some dog portraiture early in my photography, and they asked me to be their publicity person to publicize their events and classes. This got my photos (& photo credit) in many of the small daily and weekly papers, as well as Guide Dog News and the cover of Off Lead Magazine (both international). None of this paid any money (although the club reimbursed expenses), but I had a non-photography job to live on, and I made a small name for myself and developed a portfolio.

At night I taught photography basics to amateurs through four recreation departments, and it paid very well, surprisingly. Naturally my students became my clients, including Sola Optical, USA.

I sent a long PM to J about my even being happy to find a job putting shirts on hangars at one point, but there's the struggle to live, and there's enjoyment of photography... two different things. If they coincide favorably, WOW, that's one kind of success. Being able to enjoy what I saw as I walked to the job putting clothes on hangers... that's another kind of success. There are many types of success out there, and it's up to me to enjoy as many as I can.

Sorry... I got a bit long-winded on this topic.

[J]

When you say no jobs, are you ruling out wedding and children portraitures too?

Are you kidding? I'd do that stuff in a second. But, again, the Canon G3 isn't designed for it. I can't even take hand held pictures with it. Probably due to it's age and having been previously used.


I owned a G3 and although it has it limits, i think it is a camera capable of recording scenes very well. All the shots in my gallery from before July 1 2005 are from the G3. It has all the controls like a dslr, but with limited aperture, Af isn't always quick, especially in low light, but i still think it is a good camera for a compact model. Get to know your camera to get the best out of it.

If you have any tips, I'd love to hear 'em. I've been through the manual a hundred times and it doesn't answer any of the problems I've been having with it.

[brucep]

You're sounding positive, J. Sounds good. If you tell the G3 owners here the specifics of the problems you're having, I'm sure they'll be glad to help. We try to help each other out here. Glad you keep coming back!

[J]

EricvZ, I don't understand how you possibly got those shots with a G3...

[J]

You're sounding positive, J.

I'm tryin'...

[EricvZ]

EricvZ, I don't understand how you possibly got those shots with a G3...

Thanks for the compliment J! I understand you had a peek in my gallery, i can tell you that (almost) all of the shots were handheld, sometimes using a pole or lamppost to lean on, but i ever hardly used a tripod. When i bought my G3 in april 2003 it was one of the most advanced compact models on the market in that time. I thoroughly enjoyed my camera and of course i have found the limitations of it, but i really think the camera is capable of taking good quality shots.

To understand your problems, please explain a bit more info about what kind of troubles you have.
From what i read is that you have a used G3, do you have any idea how old it is and how many photo's were taken with it?
You have to understand all the compact models do have some sort of shutter-lag, causing to take the actual pictures just a tiny fraction of a second after you have pressed the button.

I know that my release-button is going to give troubles now, but that is because my cam is somewhat of 2.5 years old and over 12000 shots with it.

When you say you can't take handheld shots, it can have several reasons ...
- shutterlag, more then usual, caused by age of cam or bad working parts
- worn out shutter, you have to press the shutter hard causing camera shake
- shooting with very low shutterspeeds, shutterspeeds lower then 1/60 can cause shakey pictures
- your hands are not steady enough, try practicing to hold your body still, try holding your breath for a moment when taking the shot.

These were just the things that popped into my mind, if you explain a bit more then maybe we can help you a bit further.

[J]

From what i read is that you have a used G3, do you have any idea how old it is and how many photo's were taken with it?

Got it in september 03. Bought it at circuit city. It had scuff marks on it and scratches on the LCD screen. They told me it had been returned only one day after being bought. It was still the cheapest higher end digital camera they had...

Plus, taking pics through the viewfinder is an exercise in futility...

I'll take some hand held photos tomorrow and see how they come out with that advice. But I'm not hopeful since I've tried similar things.

[EricvZ]

... It had scuff marks on it and scratches on the LCD screen. They told me it had been returned only one day after being bought. ...
You didn't really believe that did you ... :?:
Have you seen the pictures of my G3 in my gallery ... almost no marks on it ... the person who brought yours back must have been a bit clumsy to have such marks on it after a day ...


Plus, taking pics through the viewfinder is an exercise in futility...
I must admitt i almost never used the viewfinder but always the lcd-screen ...

[brucep]

J, anything you may have heard about marksmanship or archery holds true in photography at slower shutterspeeds. Give yourself as broad a "base" as possible. A marksman is best prone, but will sit cross-legged or if standing, spread his/her legs comfortably. This will be greatly helped if you can find additonal support for your elbow or shoulder.

Get as comfortable as possible, squeeze the shutter halfway, take in a breath and let it halfway out and then gently hold your breath and slowly and gently squeeze the shutter button down the rest of the way. In shooting, I was told that the gun should surprise you a bit when it goes off.

I don't know where you are, but Walmart has pretty good tripods for $20-$30. They're lighter and more compact than my Bogen 3033a, and almost as steady for a camera that doesn't have a big mirror slamming up and down. I have a couple I haul around with me everywhere.

In your experimentation, try to change your variables (f-stop series, shutterspeed series, different stances, etc) as scientifially as possible, not intending to come home with great, sellable photos, but something you can analyze at liesure to improve your photos in the future. Have fun while you're at it.
I'm looking forward to your results.

P.S.
A good photo accessory to use when taking photos in bright sunlight is a black t-shirt. You don't wear it, you put your head through the neck and drape the rest over the camera (like the old time guys used to) to see your LCD! I used to have to do this with my Olympus C5050.

[jimk]

Honestly, J, the G3 is a very capable camera if it is working properly. The photos on page 11 of my gallery were taken with a G3 including this one

http://www.photozo.com/album/data/503/410leavethepast.jpg

I never use the viewfinder, and have never had problems shooting hand-held. I have won several aquarium photography contests using the G3, an STE2 flash controller and two flashes.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/JamesKuhn/cichlids/mwela.jpg

[ScottL]

I think you need to relax with some of your jabs back about the "Chrystler" comment... Understand where everyone is coming from.

And don't take this as a jab. It is hard, not impossible to make money without the utilities. People stated travel because alot of photography is travel.

Then again, if you had the cash to invest, some lighting would be a plus... Do some at home portrait work or product work. There are many "Stock Photo" sites on the net. If you upload alot of pictures to them, and they are interesting and hold quality... There are some people on this site that make $400+ monthly with them. (It is something I am thinking about getting into, just to have some kind of second income)

Also, if you have any family members that have young children, try doing portrait work of them... And then maybe they can pass your work onto friends of theirs, so on and so forth.

Your city, I am not sure what city, but if it is a vacation spot with tourists... That could be a plus. My personal experience of walking around NYC with my camera is many people see my equipment, stop me and ask me to take a picture of them in front of a land mark with their camera. So what I have done is taken it with their camera (Without much set up or thought) then I ask them is I can photograph them using my camera. (This shot I take more time with) I show them the image on their view finder, and then on my view finder... And they ask if there is anyway of getting my copy. Now in the past, I just emailed it to them at no cost. But then I put my thoughts together and realized this could be another source of $$$$$... So in the future, I am going to explain that I am a freelance photog, hand them a business card. And have a site set up that they can buy prints from. Will it make me a ton of money, who knows... But tourists will pay decent money to have a "Quality Picture" in front of a landmark instead of a "Blah Picture" in front of a land mark. Like night time pictures where the tourist uses a flash in the middle of time square... Trying to get them in front of something. Not realizing that the flash will expose them and not anything in the backround. (This is a trick I do not explain to them)

There are millions of ways to make money. I don't plan on making photography my living... I already have my career in place. But I will be damned if I am not going to put my "Skills as they progress" to good use.

Next summer I will spend some days at the baseball fields, soccer fields, basketball courts with my nephews as they play ball. I will photograph and let my sister and bro in law show the images to the other families... In hopes that they will want some quality action shots of their kids playing their sports... I will offer baseball, basketball, and soccer sports collectors cards, plaques, etc....

Have you thought about ebay... Images do not fetch a ton of money on ebay... But they fetch some if they are good enough. Photos of Certain kinds of Pets, landscapes, landmarks, etc... At least you don't have to travel much. Postal service will even pick up... Try making Pet Calenders... Pet Holiday cards...

The most important thing about making money is to be creative!!! If you are lacking in one area, make up for it in another area. Aside from my every day job, I have found millions of ways to make a dollar or 2 with just about anything. I have become skilled in cabinet making with a friend of mine... And he also hires me to photograph is before and after work. (I travel with him and he pays me) he then uses my images to show possible future customers... There is another idea. ;-)

Use that brain, get creative, I am sure it will pay off eventually... Just don't rush it, and don't get so down on the fact that things are not coming to you instantly... If we could all get rich over night, then money would have no value. ;-)

[steffies]

One way to get your work displayed is go to a Gallery in your city and ask if they are interested to hang some of your work in there, try the local library, townhall, restaurants, etc. ...
.

That's what I did and it does work. It took some time and some energy to get around, but sure enough it gives the chance to get your name out there. The galleries here in town all liked my portfolio and I got some opportunities fron showing to them. The library is a great place. We have twelve branches here in the county and it's easy once you get in one to get in others...

[sfaust]

Photography is 75% business and sales, and 25% photography. You will spend 3 days doing marketing, sales, calling potential clients, etc, and 1 or 2 days a week actually doing photography.

If you are not willing to hustle, you will not get the work. Photography is a very very competitive job. There are hordes of good photographers out there, and the ones that get the jobs are the ones that are marketing consistently in their potential markets.

Magazines, art buyers, ad agencies, and so forth get dozens of portfolios a week from new photographers looking for work. And they may only commission a job a week. They do not spend time looking around the Internet for new talent since they are too busy looking at all the talent that was brought to then. So unless you are willing to be a sales and business person first, its probably not going to happen.

The fact that you don't have a car, well, that hurts a lot also. Photography is a very mobile field. You need reliable transportation and the ability to haul around some gear.

Stock photography won't make you much income to live on unless you are at the higher end of the scale. Ie, rights managed, and doing a lot of trendy images. And in that end of stock, you would be competing against top name established photographers. The lower end of stock doesn't bring in enough money to maintain a decent lifestyle. It may supplement other photography income, but probably won't be enough to live on. So don't look for stock as a profession.

99% of the time you won't find ads in the classifieds for photographers. Most companies that have staff photographers don't need to advertise because there is always someone next in line to gobble up an recent opening. You can occasionally find some photojournalist jobs advertised in local papers, but that job would also require a car.

So where to start? Portraits, small commercial jobs for small businesses for their web sites and brochures. I would avoid weddings until you get better equipment and more experience. A wedding is a one time deal, and there is no room for mistakes. With a portrait or commercial shoot, you can always do it over if need be.

So, get some friends, family, etc, and practice doing portraits. Indoor with lights, outdoor with available lighting, etc. Then you will have samples to show. Print up some flyers and brochures and start leaving them around town. Maybe even advertise in some of the local newspapers since they are relatively inexpensive. That will get some income started in your direction. Then use that for marketing, training, then more equipment. From there, start working up to larger jobs, commercial work, etc, as your skills and client base expand.

And, stick around forums where you can learn from others, look at their work, and bounce ideas off them.

[MrsHey]

I'm no pro but I'm getting a lot of work just by word of mouth!!! I did one family's (a co-worker & her family) photo for them to use as their Christmas card & now a lot of folks here are trying to schedule my time!!! For now, I'm just charging a flat rate and letting them do their own printing...until I figure out what's what!!!!! I had 3 more co-workers talk to me today about it!!!!!! :bounce: I keep MY pictures around my desk & on my desktop...people ask me about them...gets the word out!!!
It also helps that I work with women...they love note cards & I'm selling note cards with my pics on them...they love these!!!!
Like Scott said...use your imagination!!!!! But you gotta have fun with it!!!!

[brucep]

In trying to break out of newspaper graphics and into graphic design, I photographed a new line of products (privately, on my own) made by a local company, then put together packaging and point of purchase displays for the products. This work was something to add to my portfolio as examples of work I'm able to do (but not done for hire).

I showed the work to the manufacturer and they said, "Very nice... we may call you." Well, at least I had a better portfolio (sigh!). Months later they did call, and they wound up becoming one of my best clients. They never used my first works (done for portfolio), but gave me pretty free reign in photographing and designing packaging & advertising for their next few products. These full page ads appeared in national woodworking magazines. I had to raise my rates because I was getting too much work!

The work I did for them was prominent in my portfolio and was instrumental in my getting my current job.

[viodea]

J, I'm really sorry if you feel harsh on my reply. If you think your equipment is not adequate, you can always find ways to earn money to get a better equipment.

I was working at a restaurant as bus boy making min. wage. I got small contract deal for doing some house maintainace work. Doing data entries. Those jobs are everywhere. Are they as fun as photography, hell NO but I got paid. Not much but those little money can get you something rather than sitting at home and complain. Eveybody wants to have a job that they enjoy but the reality is not many of them do. I'm luckly enough to be one of them. Well, I'm a software engineer and not a photographer, in case you are interested. I want to make a living out of photography too but it's not quite as easy as I would like.

I think kids are spoiled now. They(of course not all of them) are used to get everything they want just by asking.

[Landis]

J, I've been reading this thread and you have gotten some great advice from it. I think it would be a great help to everyone if you would tell us exactly where you live. Different locations have different problems for photographers in general. I know when I moved to Panama in 1970 the most I would get paid for for a commercial photo job was $10. This was after I was getting paid $250 for the same thing in the USA. A photographer still can't get much for work in Panama, but it's improved quite a bit. I sell almost nothing here in Panama, but do quite well in the USA where I've gotten a little known in the area and have had a few exhibits at Art Centers and outdoor art exhibits.

It's an uphill battle, but you have got to have the perserverance to succeed.

[mickegan]

I must add something here... J I think if you want to succeed in photography (or anything) its necessary to have some sort of plan. You have mentioned some roadblocks preventing you from moving forward, no transport - perceived inferior camera etc - why not list those things and for every one match it with an action to solve that problem. You may find that maybe step 1 is to save x amount of money to get a car and u may need to focus on that objective which will allow you to take step 2 and so on.
As for the G3 being an inferior camera take a look at my gallery, I did a series of BW street scenes here in Sydney all taken with my G2 they all printed superbly up to A3 size and I won 2 x merit awards at our local Photographic Society with 2 of them. I was competing with people who were using high end digi SLR's - my point here is the camera will produce a quality image within some boundaries. I would find the market where your camera's product can compete, work in that market save more money then upgrade when u can and persue the next level of clientele.
You may have to work in jobs that have nothing to do with photography for some time before you have the cash to start off full time. Meanwhile you can be honing your skills and promoting your work.

Work out what the roadblocks are then work on each one with your head down and a..se up until you knock them over one at a time.
sorry about the soap box but I think its time for les talk and more do.
hope this sounds positive - its meant to be
mick

[metalgod78]

I recently took some courses at the rochester institute of technology about selling photos. They have a stock photo class. It was real interesting about how it might be hurting the market. The final result is it is helping the market change and grow. I suggest looking into that format of selling.

[Titanium]

[MrsHey]

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