Jill Greenberg?

[NICKds]

Hi everyone!
I have a question.

I love the lighting technique photographer Jill Greenberg does in her photos. It really makes the pictures glow & come to life. These photo sessions in particular I thought were amazing!

http://i7.tinypic.com/44gue85.jpg
http://www.thefoto.ru/uploads/posts/1152349133_wqf0uqhe1.jpg
http://i15.tinypic.com/30xa7p2.jpg
http://www.thefoto.ru/uploads/posts/1152349079_5za6pn631.jpg
http://www.angiereedgarner.com/variousimages/GrandOldPartyJillGreenberg.jpg

My question is, What would I need to achieve a similar lighting effect as in the photos above? Like the way the hair shines, and makes the sides of the face & parts of the skin lightened. Also what type of background and lighting would I need? Cause the way the it fades looks so good! & how the hair stays light, even though the background is dark. I'm really interested in doing this, so any help is greatly appreciated! :-D

thanx in advance!

For anyone who is interested in seeing more photos by Jill Greenberg, Go Here:

http://www.manipulator.com/

[NICKds]

anyone? :(

[Sammyc]

1. A professional makeup artist

2. A months course in Photoshop

:-)

[CathieT]

I'm thinking much gaussian blur and diffuse glow.

[sfaust]

Its mostly the post production that gives it the overall effect you see. Its far more than guasian blur and diffuse glow, but involves tonal changes, curves, and layer blending types. I wish I knew exactly how she does her post production as well. But then if it was really easy, she wouldn't be in such demand :-) Like so many other artists, once you find something unique, stylish, and in demand, you write your own ticket. But once everyone else figures out how to do it, its not unique anymore and your rates drop. She isn't likely to tell anyone how she does her 'signature' look, much like Mario Andretti isn't about to give away his secrets (unless its to his son of course :-).

The lighting is fairly typical. Ring flash in the front, standard reflector or other direct harsh source from the rear, and a typical background light in a grid (at least in the examples shown). But its the post processing that makes the images stand out, not the lighting.

[Gojairu]

From what I can see , Jill puts a lot into the initial lighting, backgrounds and poses. Obviously she must shoot a lot of images to get "that one" wanted capture.

Post processing looks to be a lot of patience and precise photoshop editing. Obvious elements of this are selective sharpening, selective blurring (mainly backgrounds), selective saturation, selective curves amongsts many unnown others. I think she spends a lot of time on each image...and it seems to be worth while.

~Tony

[sfaust]

Probably a surprise to many, she prefers to shoot film and scan it in for post processing. She only shoots direct to digital if a client requests it, but usually trys to talk them into film citing that its part of her look and style. Although in the end, that probably has less influence on her look than the post-processing she does. When anyone asks about her digital post, she changes the subject :-) No surprise there!

[Gojairu]

Another artist who has very similar work is Susi Lawson. website is here:-

http://susilawsonphotography.biz/layout/0001/index.cfm

Susi sells a tuition Dvd from here site for $80 inc delivery.

regards

~ Tony

[sfaust]

IMO, I find Susi's style similar to Jill's, but much different. Jill's images look realistic and real to life with a slight painted feel to them, while Susi's looks like paintings with a realistic feel. I hope that makes sense :-) Although, using Susi's style as a starting basis to get to Jill's style could be a realistic approach.

Thanks for the link. I've never heard of her before.

[whiteagle]

I'm kinda curious if she's like stomping on these kids feet or something to make them cry like that. I spent the most time looking at the second link. It's fairly obvious that she's lighting them from each side, and using a ring flash (don't know why she didn't edit that). I agree that there is a ton of post going on here. I'd love to have one of her unedited prints to compare, but I might as well wish for a million dollars. There's time going into her lighting, but nothing compared to what she's spending at the computer. And yeah, I agree with sfaust about Susi's pictures. They're just a little too fake for my taste.

[Gojairu]

I'm kinda curious if she's like stomping on these kids feet or something to make them cry like that. I spent the most time looking at the second link. It's fairly obvious that she's lighting them from each side, and using a ring flash (don't know why she didn't edit that). I agree that there is a ton of post going on here. I'd love to have one of her unedited prints to compare, but I might as well wish for a million dollars. There's time going into her lighting, but nothing compared to what she's spending at the computer. And yeah, I agree with sfaust about Susi's pictures. They're just a little too fake for my taste.

Re: Jill Greenberg:
She gave them a lollipop, and then took it off them....hence they are heart broken.

[Jan]

Well here comes Jan.... being nasty for once! I don't like her photographs they are far tooooooo false and secondly I would like to call her a not very nice name for the way she treats the children.

My father taught us as children 'To do unto others, as you would have them do unto you'

I only hope one day she gets her dues!

Cheers Jan

[stewartsmith]

Has this womans work style popped up on here again. :roll:

The pics might look good but her methods in getting them are a little dubious.

Imagine someone gave you your dream camera then took it back off of you a couple of minutes later. how would that make you feel?

Now put yourself in the childs place.

I'd call it bullying myself.

[Gojairu]

This series aside, she has done others with "happy children", "monkeys and apes", bears, pop stars, and others.
Here is her website: - www.manipulator.com

[keithbales]

Whereas I am in full agreement with the points aready raised regarding the children shots, I have found the rest of her images to be very interesting indeed and like the effects she creates.

Regarding seeing an original image, if you look at her clip from her DVD you can see her initial work on the girl blowing snow shot, there are some interesting snippets of info in there which I can put to good use.

I wouldn't mind seeing more of her instruction video but I think $80 is a little steep.

[Gojairu]

Whereas I am in full agreement with the points aready raised regarding the children shots, I have found the rest of her images to be very interesting indeed and like the effects she creates.

Regarding seeing an original image, if you look at her clip from her DVD you can see her initial work on the girl blowing snow shot, there are some interesting snippets of info in there which I can put to good use.

I wouldn't mind seeing more of her instruction video but I think $80 is a little steep.
Hi Keith,
You are obviously refering to Susi Lawson, whom I admire too, and am on the brink of purchasing her DvD. $80 = about £40, which although expensive could save years in a learning curve.

She seems to have a few styles. One very similar to the Jill Greenberg style, one more of an obvious painting style, and a straight photog style too.

The debate above however is more in referance to Jill Greenberg, who did the "lollipop thing". Her other work is here:-
www.manipulator.com

~ Tony

[sfaust]

She did an excellent series for Lencrafters. You can immediately tell they are her shots just by looking at them. She is a world class photographer, but unfortunately she will no be known mostly for her baby pictures.

As for those shots, I can't count the number of times I've had to take something away from my kids, said no, diciplined them verbally, or any other number of things that caused them to cry and throw a tantrum. Its not that big of a deal in a childs life, it happends daily, and she was tyring to capture that. I can see her reasoning behind wanting to capture those exotions. But I do have to laugh when I hear some say she should be arrested for child abuse. Thats just going over the edge. God forbid the number of times I would have been arrested taking away that candy bar at the checkout line and letting my kids cry all the way to the car :-D

With all that said, I probably wouldn't have used it as a ploy to take their picture either. But I also don't see it as some tramatic moment in their life that will effect them any differently than when a kid picks up a dirty piece of candy on the ground and a parent takes it away from them. Probably not the smartest thing she's done, but not earth shattering either, and there are a few people that need to take a chill pill over this one :-D

[Gojairu]

I agree Stephen. :cool:

I thought of doing a similar shoot with children, no not children erm adults; again with lollipops..... :arrow:
When they get to the middle they would discover the lollipop centre is liquid mustard. Imagine those facial contortions!

Just kidding of course! lol lol lol

~Tony :roll:

[andkiich]

Oh, boy...another Jill Greenberg post.

Haven't we beaten this to death(the political aspect) already?

I just hope this thread stays on subject of the original post and it doesn't get "heated" like the other one did.

[Gojairu]

Oh, boy...another Jill Greenberg post.

Haven't we beaten this to death(the political aspect) already?

I just hope this thread stays on subject of the original post and it doesn't get "heated" like the other one did.

So far so good. :arrow:
Seems to be more of a discussion about lighting and post editing techiniques... what are your thoughts on them?

[NICKds]

Oh, boy...another Jill Greenberg post.

Haven't we beaten this to death(the political aspect) already?

I just hope this thread stays on subject of the original post and it doesn't get "heated" like the other one did.
I agree, lol. As interesting and as entertaining as some of your guy's posts are, I actually really am curious about her technique. Thank you! to everybody's helpful comments! I really appreciate it :-)

[sfaust]

Ditto. If Robert Mapplethorpe can take pictures of a penis lashed to a board and manage to still have his other images in major galleries across the world, I'm pretty sure we all can get past this and discuss her techniques :-)

There has to be someone out there that is close with her post processing techniques that we can learn from because Jill is keeping it close to her chest. I've seen some photographers with skin tones that match well, but not to the level Jill has taken it throughout her images. I'll see if I can't find some links to those photographers as a start.

[andkiich]

When I first saw them, it seemed like they were paintings. Do we know of the tools she uses?
Is it possible that she could run some of them through a corel painter program or do we think this is a photoshop edit?

[Gojairu]

I know Susi Lawson uses both Photoshop 7.0, Corel Painter IX and a Wacom Tablet and pen if that helps.
There is a short demo of her techinque in the Dvd buying section of her website.
~Tony

[KathysPix]

I don't know Jill (or her work - which after viewing the links in this thread - won't count that as a loss.) However, as an active member at Cafe, I've seen Susi's work for a couple of years. Her work is more to my taste, and more importantly, she is a warm and helpful photo-friend. I personally can't afford her CD or Painter, but still love that look. She just came out with a series on scenery. She also has given me valuable time - critiquing some of my work. So, I'm biased on more than one front.

I guess the point that seems pertinent to me is that each of these artists appeals to different people (or to none.) And, trying to discover how they reach their style is just one more road to learning for the rest of us. Kat

[Gojairu]

I don't know Jill (or her work - which after viewing the links in this thread - won't count that as a loss.) However, as an active member at Cafe, I've seen Susi's work for a couple of years. Her work is more to my taste, and more importantly, she is a warm and helpful photo-friend. I personally can't afford her CD or Painter, but still love that look. She just came out with a series on scenery. She also has given me valuable time - critiquing some of my work. So, I'm biased on more than one front.

I guess the point that seems pertinent to me is that each of these artists appeals to different people (or to none.) And, trying to discover how they reach their style is just one more road to learning for the rest of us. Kat
I agree Kathy. It is our differances that keep the creativity alive and growing.

Susi Lawson has helped me too, and is ever so friendly in email correspondance.
Her site is well worth a visit and time spent in her gallery to see all the different styles.

[rubyrieke]

her photographs are awesome but so is her retoucher Amy
http://www.amydresser.com
There is a link to how she does it somewhere on retouchpro.com

[Gojairu]

Now that's interesting.
Amy Dresser takes credit for retouching a few of Jill Greenberg photographs, but on Jill's site she gives no mention of Amy Dresser for her retouching work.

I like what amy has achieved with her retouching.
Thanks for the link Ruby :thumb: and welcome to Zo :-D

[sfaust]

Most of the top level professional photographers use retouchers. They are just too busy to do everything themselves. Much of the credit for an image goes to a team of people, the model, makeup artist, stylist, assistant, digital tech, retoucher, etc, yet rarely do any of them get credit for their piece. It's hard to roll credits at the end of a still image!

In photo essays or fashion editorial layouts where they have text space, they do list credits. But on an advertisement or similar, they dont since they have no room. If they list anyone, its just the creative team leader, that being the photographer.

[Gojairu]

Thanks for the clarity Stephen ;-)

[Gojairu]

Whereas I am in full agreement with the points aready raised regarding the children shots, I have found the rest of her images to be very interesting indeed and like the effects she creates.

Regarding seeing an original image, if you look at her clip from her DVD you can see her initial work on the girl blowing snow shot, there are some interesting snippets of info in there which I can put to good use.

I wouldn't mind seeing more of her instruction video but I think $80 is a little steep.

Keith,

You may be glad to here that Susi Lawson is a member member on the zo. Her ID is "su-Z"
She has recently submitted more of her work.
~Tony

[KathysPix]

[quote=keithbales]You may be glad to here that Susi Lawson is a member member on the zo. Her ID is "su-Z" She has recently submitted more of her work.~Tony

Tony - Thanks for the heads-up. Going looking now. kat

[su-Z]

Hi Buds! I am very flattered to see my work being discussed, I appreciate the honor! Thank you Tony and Kathy for the very kind comments!
Keith, if ya see my DVD as 15 lessons and devide that by the price , you will find that they are only around $5 a peice and then it hopefully seems like a real bargain eh? :) (I have been considering a pay per lesson approach for around $20. )Portrait magic addresses painting in Corel Painter and the prep in photoshop along with airbrushing hair in photoshop and smoothing skin, adding life to the eyes etc. It also has a lesson on the 'draganizer' action which really adds punch to a portrait! My new DVD , which I am working on now "100% photoshop Magic" is on airbrushing art in PS and some tutes on slimming body parts, defining lines, and the best free plug in on the internet!
I look forward to coming here more often and enjoying getting to know ya! Looks like some great folks and some great images! TTYL!

[photohack]

All she did is take a little candy from a baby. They started to cry, she took the shots, and she gave the candy back. Get over it people! She didn't abuse the kids. This talk has been going on for years now. She's a great photographer.